On this episode of “Out Of Office: A Travel Podcast,” Kiernan interviews one of the show’s most interesting guests ever: opera and Italian cuisine expert Fred Plotkin. Decades ago, Fred published a breakout hit for intrepid eaters: his book “Italy for the Gourmet Traveler.” During COVID, he collaborated with frequent “Out of Office” guest Rick Steves on a new update, which the duo published in 2023 as “Italy for Food Lovers.” Fred’s knowledge proved so encyclopedic, this will be Part 1 of 2!

Note: Some SFX are missing from the top of the show, which explains the weird pauses. We’ll talk about it on the next episode. 

Things we talk about in this week’s episode:

Willy Wonka Immersive Experience


“Italy for Food Lovers”


Fred Plotkin biography


“The Myth of Your Phone’s Airplane Mode”


“Pod Save the World” CPAC Doubles Down on Creepy Autocrats